00:08,400 Sortition as a sustainable protection against oligarchy 00:13,200 Marseille 23rd April 2011 00:15,900 00:16,170 I think our political impotence comes from the fact | that what we call “democracy” is actually the exact opposite. 00:26,265 What we call “democracy” today, | is anything but a democracy: it is an aristocratic oligarchy. 00:37,710 And it hasn’t happened by chance, or due to corrupt or vicious players. Not at all. 00:44,760 The mechanism which lies at the heart of our institutions | is aristocratic [and] it is called “election”. 00:52,060 The election consists in choosing, choosing the best, the best = "aristos" => "aristos" aristocracy and... 01:00,710 Thousands of years of history have shown that aristocracy ALWAYS becomes, transforms into an oligarchy, which means the power of a few. 01:10,710 "Monarchy", is the power of one; | "democracy", is the power of the people; "demos" the people, "cracy" power; | oligarchy, is the power of a few, a very small number of people. 01:20,860 We actually are in a situation of oligarchy: you can easily see that only a few are ruling. 01:25,470 01:26,660 But they are ruling not because they are particularly evil or particularly clever. 01:33,420 I would like to emphasize that the root cause is NOT THE VICE of those who are ruling, not at all. 01:41,980 Even if you killed them all, others would replace them, if you don’t change INSTITUTIONS. 01:47,900 01:49,010 INSTITUTIONS ARE THE PROBLEM. 01:51,245 And with our current institutions worldwide, 01:55,090 01:56,990 the preferred process, defended by everyone... 02:01,350 02:02,680 ... left parties, corporates, banks... 02:06,280 02:07,370 (and this is a paradox, I’ll ask you a few questions in this regard at the end, 02:11,560 people with nothing in common, with totally different interests, defend the elections, that is fishy. 02:19,070 Excuse me, but the fact that Goldman Sachs defends the elections, proves that this company doesn’t have to fear it. 02:25,325 Indeed, Goldman Sachs funds the whole — or most— of the election of the president who will then serve its interests. 02:31,610 But it isn’t only the case in the US, it’s like this in all the so-called | "democracies” which are not... which CANNOT BE democracies. Because of elections. 02:40,540 02:41,700 Therefore, since they managed to call the current regime "democracy", the place is no longer vacant. 02:49,570 And one cannot designate the enemy since the problematic regime carries the name of the one which would solve the issue. 02:59,810 That means we call the problem “democracy”. 03:02,685 We call the problematic regime by the name of the solution. 03:06,440 We are thus facing a TERMINOLOGY issue. 03:08,140 03:09,600 Where does this come from? 03:11,010 Is it a conspiracy? 03:12,690 Not at all, not at all... 03:13,820 03:14,910 First of all, when those who designed the current regime... 03:19,855 (at the end of the 18th century, 03:21,975 in Great Britain, then in the US, then in France in 1789, but roughly speaking at the end of the 18th century), 03:29,340 institutions were set up that we called and that they called... 03:33,190 they didn’t call them “democracy”: they perfectly knew what democracy was, | they knew the Athenian world, they were quite educated, 03:39,130 they were Hellenists they knew the Greek world, 03:44,240 but they didn’t want it: 03:45,915 Sieyès, the one who wrote "Qu'est-ce que le Tiers Etat" = What is the Third Estate | one of the thinkers, one of the greatest thinkers of the French revolution, 03:52,450 Madison, in the US, who became one of the greatest thinkers, one of the Founding Fathers of the American constitution, 03:57,030 these people were not planning to build a democracy at all: 04:01,820 they didn’t want democracy: to them, it was anarchy, government by the populace ; THEY WERE ELITISTS. 04:09,310 They said that “the people are not capable of managing their own affairs”. 04:11,850 04:12,890 The founding fathers of our government institutions, so-called “representative government”... 04:19,865 "representative government" => no democracy at all ! 04:23,040 These people knew, and thought with honesty 04:27,210 They had no wrong intentions, since they wanted the end of the old regime which was worse but they didn’t want any democracy at all. 04:33,800 04:35,730 And when someone talked about “democracy” it was almost an insult, it was pejorative, | it was not a positive word, it was not what it became later. 04:42,800 04:44,965 So it happened by a switch of wording, by ... 04:47,910 04:49,070 a trick in history: at the beginning of the 19th century, the term “democracy” started to designate this [antidemocratic] regime. 04:57,475 For instance, when Tocqueville wrote "Democracy in America", 05:00,535 he wasn’t discussing the subject at all (like you and me), it wasn’t a democracy at all, | but the book became a huge best-seller ("Democracy in America”). 05:08,660 And he wasn’t the only one: 05:10,785 Several authors progressively started to call it “democracy” … because you’ll see that there are common points, | there is one common point (between democracy and representative government) which is EQUALITY... 05:19,380 05:21,070 (We will see, when talking about Athenian democracy, that its core objective was equality: 05:28,400 05:29,520 but but but but but... Equality as claimed by the Athenian people was TRUE political equality. 05:36,500 05:37,630 Whereas representative government equality is only FORMAL. 05:41,215 It is in fact totally fake. 05:43,645 It is not real: you can easily see that our equality is... It is... 05:48,855 based upon auxiliary details, not on essentials.) 05:51,500 05:53,465 Anyway, invoking equality as a common point, policy-makers progressively used a shortcut | and started talking about “democracy”, quickly followed by everybody else. 06:04,150 As you can see, it became a perfect way for political representatives to stay in place | using “democracy” to be elected and keep the power... But elected people are also notables, 06:14,155 they didn’t come from the working class. 06:15,800 06:17,575 Although it was not a conspiracy, it certainly happened because it was in their interest. 06:21,680 Those in power had an interest [a personal interest to go for a “representative government”]. 06:23,750 Tocqueville said... (this is incredible!) 06:26,820 Tocqueville, an icon of liberalism... 06:29,890 06:30,840 said: "I’M NOT AFRAID OF UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE: 06:33,650 THE PEOPLE WILL VOTE AS THEY WILL BE TOLD TO". 06:35,540 06:36,360 THEY ALREADY KNEW: 1835, at the beginning of the 19th century... 06:40,545 At the very very very beginning of the elections, they perfectly knew: 06:43,110 06:44,620 Nobody would be overthrown, Poor people would never have power through elections, EVER, they knew it from the beginning. 06:50,530 06:51,330 And this is perfect for them, that we call it “democracy”, because... 06:54,050 06:55,120 "democracy” sounds like an ideal: “demos”, “cratos”, power of the people... 07:00,830 "Yeah, great, we won’t be fooled too bad if we are ruling”... 07:05,930 OK then, but if you call “democracy” a regime which has nothing to do with it, which is even the exact opposite... 07:11,740 07:12,650 Well, you are being fooled so bad it’s not even funny. 07:15,830 07:19,315 So... 07:20,315 07:22,075 to... to make it a tool for today, 07:26,315 to see what is available today, we need to understand what Athenian democracy involves. 07:32,250 Then we will refer to the objections we mentioned when we talked about... 07:37,330 xenophobia, phallocracy... 07:40,970 slavery... I’ll come back to these when we talk about objections... 07:43,805 But first, I’d like to show you the core of a true democracy, of Athenian democracy. 07:49,830 with the material I prepared for you [http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/ centralite_du_tirage_au_sort_en_democratie.pdf]. 07:52,290 It’s a diagram I designed for these lectures... 07:54,635 It was initially handwritten, but now, for you, for the first time, I typed it, so... 07:59,720 The drawback of the typed one, is that it is already complete, 08:02,700 whereas when I was doing it by hand, while talking, I would draw it simultaneously, 08:08,710 so everyone had a step-by-step vision of it... 08:11,230 but at the same time, since my writing is not good, and since [when] one writes while talking, one cannot write well, this is now much better. 08:16,390 So let me show you... You may forget the rest... 08:20,060 Let’s start with the beginning: 08:21,700 08:22,630 After centuries of tyranny, Athenians 08:26,080 have ONE practical objective: 08:27,825 08:29,150 Which is real equality, REAL POLITICAL EQUALITY. 08:34,760 No social equality, no economic equality, 08:37,520 (they know they’re not equal)... 08:39,040 no physical equality... 08:40,510 No: POLITICAL equality 08:42,440 Decisions must be taken collectively, 08:46,000 in an Assembly: one person = one vote. 08:48,280 Assembly of the PEOPLE, NO assembly of representatives: => assembly of the people 08:52,415 Assembly of the PEOPLE, that’s important. 08:55,705 So, the objective... which should be highlighted with a particular colour, because it’s like... 09:00,600 the core, the heart, what should not be forgotten when thinking about other institutions. 09:07,610 09:10,480 Ok. 09:11,345 So what did Athenians notice? 09:13,165 (and we notice the same thing)... 09:14,505 They found out that ... 09:16,775 POWER CORRUPTS... 09:18,200 09:19,420 and it takes a little time... it takes a little time... 09:21,860 but in the end, nobody resists: even the most virtuous become corrupt. 09:27,000 they begin to follow their personal interest instead of pursuing the public interest. 09:30,875 Noting that... 09:32,360 (these are facts — and facts that we can still see today, it is clear that wealth, powers, privileges, do change people: 09:39,720 and even if we’re good at the start, we’re progressively getting worse [afterwards], | like drug addicts who need their drug: once we get used to it, we want it to continue. 09:47,340 and this need goes before the general interest... 09:50,100 09:51,115 Noting that... 09:53,370 (what elections do NOT allow!), 09:54,810 Noting that, Athenians set SUB-GOALS that must be understood as CORE and essentials: 10:03,795 First and second sub-goals (that go together): POLITICAL AMATEURISM. 10:09,630 (It is grey because it is a photocopy 10:14,370 of the coloured original which shows institutions in green; | [the white rectangles,] show the objectives which make us choose such or such institution.) 10:20,590 So, [second sub-goal:] "ROTATION OF DUTIES" => they rotate powers: | since power corrupts we never leave it to someone for a long time.. 10:26,605 Powers are rotated so they don’t have time to corrupt. 10:29,980 As a result, there is no professionalism: 10:34,570 "we do NOT WANT ANY PROFESSIONALS at all [NEVER IN POLITICS]", Athenians used to say, 10:37,385 we don’t want them because they are the heart of CORRUPTION. 10:40,490 10:41,310 So, 10:41,795 we aren’t discussing institutions yet: 10:43,530 We are at the HEART of what motivated democracy: Democracy existed to reach these goals. 10:50,860 And we could take the same (goals) for us today, saying: 10:54,430 "We want them to be amateurs, 10:56,865 so, they must rotate, 10:58,395 it’s because we want them to be amateurs, that they must rotate; | it’s because they rotate that they’ll be amateurs; | it’s definitely interconected, it goes hand in hand, to protect equality. 11:06,435 We must understand the intrinsic CONSISTENCY of all this. 11:09,830 If we let grow politician cartels, we won’t reach equality. 11:14,490 On the contrary, we’ll have professional politicians and we’ll lose equality. 11:18,475 Politically speaking. 11:20,115 Politically, right? I’m not talking about equality here... I know we’re not equal; | They very well knew we’re not equal. as far as wealth and intelligence are concerned 11:28,605 but we must be politically equal. That’s it... 11:31,085 that’s the democratic project.. 11:33,990 11:34,950 We must understand, that these two sub-goals... 11:37,290 (we’re not talking about institutions... or maybe yes, only with short and non renewable mandates...) 11:41,480 But short and non renewable mandates are not compatible with an election: 11:45,410 you’ll never get enough candidates to fill short and non renewable mandate positions. 11:52,075 You won’t get them with an election... 11:54,450 because when you elect someone, the mechanism which led you to elect this person, will also lead you to reelect them,, 12:01,770 election thus entails the stablity of the political establishment, 12:07,390 it creates professionalisation, sedimentation : the same people will always have [the power].. 12:12,945 The election genome contains the professionalisation of politics. 12:17,655 They go together. 12:19,660 12:20,720 It is scheduled as such. 12:23,850 12:24,805 So, they chose sortition, because it’s perfectly consistent: 12:29,260 to obtain amateurism, 12:31,350 to apply rotations (short and non renewable mandates), sortition IS NECESSARY! 12:35,640 You cannot keep the rest and replace sortition by election: it won’t work. 12:40,900 Here, the [central] election does not allow amateurism and rotation of duties. 12:44,650 Therefore, it does not allow equality: it cannot be replaced 12:47,280 12:48,200 SORTITION allows, by always taking different people randomly... 12:53,940 12:54,840 ALLOWS ROTATION OF DUTIES AND AMATEURISM. THAT IS EQUALITY. 12:58,850 12:59,850 This is essential.. This is the core/nucleus of a democracy.. 13:03,390 As a complementary institution, they had the right to speak as core objective. 13:07,250 That is... (they knew... they were not idealist people.. 13:11,460 Plato, [he,] was an idealist! 13:12,790 Philosophers often were idealists who fuelled and maintained MYTHS that helped dominate. 13:19,770 You know that MYTHS ARE USED TO DOMINATE.. 13:21,695 Mirabeau said: "men are like rabbits: they caught themselves by their ears". 13:27,315 We believe in stories, we need to be told stories. 13:30,230 This is "story telling". I’ve got a little book I didn’t bring but it is important, | a very little book which summarises the state of science on "story telling" [by Christian Salmon, ed. La découverte]. 13:37,710 "Story telling", is not only a marketing technique, | it’s a technique to manipulate human beings by telling them stories. 13:48,205 We [all] are very vulnerable to lies. 13:50,485 We all believe in them: when we are told stories, we believe them.. 13:55,120 Our only wish is to believe them. 13:57,785 So, when we are told lies, we only want this: if it is consistent with | what we already understood from the “real” world, we only want this. 14:06,000 14:08,750 So, ... 14:11,980 Knowing that... 14:14,105 Athenians were no idealists: 14:16,025 They were quite realistic, pragmatic, THEY KNEW THEY WERE NOT PERFECT. 14:20,100 they knew they would be able to take from the box 14:23,410 they knew they would [tend to] move from the public interest to their personal interest, 14:27,830 they knew they were liars, they knew they were not always honest, they knew it... 14:33,500 14:34,890 and they would say: "well, our system will make EACH CITIZEN A POTENTIAL SENTINEL. 14:42,850 Citizens who want to speak, denounce, CAN denounce." 14:46,135 "And they will stay alive", (because it was strict at this time: 14:49,350 before democracy, when somebody would protest, 14:52,755 dissidents were banned... 14:55,110 Leaders would hastily get rid of them...). 14:58,615 Athenians made a different choice, they said: "we are going to protect dissident views, 15:04,555 we’re gonna let people express themselves 15:07,675 by implementing.. 15:09,560 ISEGORIA... 15:11,385 that they preferred to isonomia or to other very important democratic institutions: 15:15,210 to them, ISEGORIA was a PILLAR of democracy. 15:19,420 According to this pillar: 15:21,675 "everyone in an assembly MAT speak about anything and at any time". 15:27,440 15:28,455 They wouldn’t do it [all at the same time, of course]: 15:30,150 15:32,210 when someone spoke, people would listen to him/her, and was blamed for not expressing himself/herself properly, for talking nonsense, rules were strict. 15:39,185 So... 15:40,090 but everyone COULD do it.. 15:41,615 IT was very important that everyone [COULD speak]... And the assembly wasn’t a mess: 15:45,155 there were magistrates (that’s how drawn representatives were called, | their task partly consisted in keeping the assembly disciplined, thus in verifying that everything was in good order). 15:54,285 15:56,700 15:57,740 But the fact that each citizen who wanted to protest, who had something to say, was allowed to say it | without being killed, is absolutely essential to keep DEMOCRACY SOUND AND CLEAN. 16:07,260 Which means... 16:08,610 it GUARANTEES that Athenians considered that democracy would LAST, 16:15,830 because any oligarchic deviations (they knew that there were), 16:19,500 each citizen -- let me remind you that citizens were armed – each citizen... 16:23,260 16:24,195 had the power [to publicly denounce such deviations], committed by the institutions that were protecting him/her | (it’s a bit like today, our institutions should protect whistleblowers: 16:31,210 people like Fabrice Nicolino, Denis Robert, the lady who denounced Mediator... 16:38,800 16:40,180 Irène Frachon, that’s her, 16:41,900 we’ve got several wild and courageous whistleblowers, who are struggling, 16:48,070 16:49,080 institutions should protect them... in a specific manner; | a bit like labour law particularly protects employee or trade union representatives) 16:58,945 Well, Athenian institutions... 17:01,550 17:02,570 would guarantee this right to speak to everyone. 17:04,730 It was called Isegoria, which is an essential institution. 17:06,960 It made them active citizens. 17:08,990 17:09,870 Tha fact that... • when you allow people to speak and take their words into account, 17:13,550 make them want to try hard. 17:15,070 • Whereas when institutions act as if your words/opinions didn’t have any influence, people are reluctant to try hard. 17:21,875 Today, we complain about passive citizens. 17:24,970 But INSTITUTIONS MAKE THEM PASSIVE: what’s the point in being active since it won’t make any difference anyway. 17:30,765 Imagine open institutions which would allow you to change something: you would become much more active. 17:36,095 Look at Switzerland, it’s not a cure-all, but it is much more democratic, | probably one of the only democracies in the world (with Venezuela maybe). 17:43,660 17:44,475 In Switzerland, the fact that each citizen may trigger - (with a few co-signatories) a referendum on his/her own, | which means ask the question [which seems important to him/her] To ALL Swiss citizens... 17:54,705 It really makes them quite active: go to Switzerland, political activity is suprisingly | strong there, when you talk about it: these people actually do politics. 18:00,900 18:01,720 Much more than we do. Although it’s not perfect, [problems obviously] remain... 18:04,060 Athenians themselves would complain about passivity, people are never satisfied, would always like things to be different.. 18:08,750 in [our known] human history... the city of Athens is the biggest plitical activity we’ve ever had. 18:17,480 Thats is: open institutions.. 18:19,305 18:20,460 make active citizens. 18:22,840 Active citizens feed/foster amateurism and make it possible... 18:28,150 And amateurism make them active too, because there is a chance... 18:31,310 everyone had a chance to be drawn. 18:33,520 Sortition makes plausible the possibility that I may some day be the president of Athens 18:39,625 18:40,600 18:42,175 The president of Athens was randomly drawn EVERY DAY! 18:45,330 18:46,240 every day! drawn... 18:48,100 So [1 out of 4 citizens] could say: "I was once president of Athens". 18:52,990 And no one could say: “I was president twice” (because the mandate was not renewable). 18:56,450 Duties would rotate and rotate 18:57,850 When you know that some day you may be the spokesman of the group... 19:04,575 it deeply changes your relationships with politics: 19:07,000 you do politics naturally, because it’s everywhere. 19:11,200 19:13,430 But don’t put the cart before the horse : we should not wait until we do politics ourselves for institutions to change. 19:20,240 In my opinion, GOOD INSTITUTIONS WILL MAKE GOOD CITIZENS. 19:25,950 Good institutions are educational, they are a [CIVIC] school... 19:29,395 I’ll come back to this, when we speak about jurymen and Tocquevilles’ opinion on them, for he wrote great pages: | He was a fierce defender... of sortition. 19:39,000 And I’ll literllay read the words he used because... 19:43,660 ... he beautifully expressed himself... 19:46,345 So, [although,] he was an aristocrat who was, I think, profoundly anti-democrat; | antidemocrat, but honest, I mean, when he described his thoughts, he used to try to see the good side in each view. 19:58,455 And that made Tocqueville loved by everyone, | everyone would find what he/she was looking for in Tocqueville’s writings: because he doesn’t really show what he thinks. 20:07,330 There’s a letter from his brother (their correspondence is available), | where Tocqueville had [him] read the chapters of "Democracy in America" while he was writing it, 20:17,300 and there’s a letter where his brother — whose name I can’t remember — | [his brother] writes (to Alexis de Tocqueville), telling him... 20:23,890 20:24,950 "for this chapter you sent me, we had said that you would not show what you think... 20:30,425 and I saw what you think... 20:32,290 I saw it. So you.. you... 20:34,150 You must re-write it." 20:35,660 So he would re-write: he would weigh what he wrote so people cannot see what he thought, | and it gave his writing a strength which is extremely attractive because... 20:45,930 he showed the quality of democracy (well, of what he calls “democracy” | because, let me remind you, this isn’t a democracy at all, anyway, it’s more convenient to call it this way)... 20:54,265 He describes the American regime... 20:58,875 with its strength and weaknesses... 21:01,000 with an honesty that is still useful for us today,, 21:03,670 because it is true that the representative regime such as it is, such as we experience it, has defects that lead to dictatorship, 21:09,715 a SOFT dictatorship described by Tocqueville the one we are currently experiencing. 21:12,825 So, Tocqueville, although he was antidemocrat, tell us great things | and sortition-related sections are amazing, we’ll see that later. 21:22,900 21:23,800 So, if you like, the core of democracy is this thing [showing the centre of the diagram]] : 21:27,670 the objective, the sub-goals and THE PROCESS THAT MAKES these sub-goals POSSIBLE... 21:33,690 IF YOU CHANGE SOMETHING WITHIN IT YOU WILL LOSE DEMOCRACY. 21:37,480 21:38,365 So... 21:40,475 Athenians were afraid of sortition, like us, same thing, same fear... 21:44,000 They were humans like us, and would think a lot, they were far from being stupid, they were not idiots | because it happened 2500 years ago... they would think exactly like you today, same thing. 21:49,975 And maybe even more, because they would do more politics.. 21:52,640 So... they were afraid of drawing idiots.. 21:55,670 So, first of all, they would NOT GIVE THE POWER to the drawee: 21:57,830 THE DRAWEE WOULD NOT DECIDE: 22:00,860 THE ASSEMBLY WOULD DECIDE, 22:03,665 the assembly, not the representatives. 22:05,830 22:07,550 Do not imagine that elections are replace by sortition, and that the power is left | to elected representatives [like we leave it today]: | not at all, it doesn’t work like this. 22:16,400 Iyou must understand that DEMOCRACY IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM OUR CURRENT SYSTEM 22:20,110 There are common points since collective decisions are taken, | we must assess collective decisions, we must implement collective decisions, we must... 22:28,700 judge conflicts between individuals... There are lots of common points... 22:33,425 We must reach comparable objectives, but to reach a balance... we must understand that | THE PHILOSOPHY OF INSTITUTIONS, must completely change. 22:43,340 22:44,255 We will see how it can work and continue to work with a high nulber of people,, 22:48,350 but you’ll see that with the FEDERATION, with the small scale democracy [and] the upward pyramid-shaped federation,, | WITH CONTROLS OF THE POWER AT EACH STAGE, this is totally conceivable. 22:57,675 I’ll get back to this later (to the feasability today). 23:02,000 Well... 23:03,295 before this second part, I talked about it earlier... 23:07,520 23:08,515 sortition mechanically and literally entails with no exception, 23:15,445 (exceptions are marginal), 23:18,055 a DESYNCHRONIZATION, Hansen tralks about it. 23:23,000 There are two books.. here, lots of books on Athenian democracy which are really great. 23:27,910 23:28,860 But... 23:30,240 the day-do-day life of Athenians, 23:33,280 when they draw lots, the machines they use.. 23:37,470 the issues they have with their democracy... Everything is explained in a very good book... this book... is wonderful: 23:43,795 you’ve got the impression that you [see] a society live like you would like it to live today. 23:47,370 In any case, one can feel what can be transposable into... 23:50,600 Someone who loves Athenian democracy wrote it; 23:53,680 his name is Hansen and the title is "Athenian democracy in the age of Demosthenes". 23:57,200 23:58,080 Good book to see their day-to-day life.. He is one of the greatest known experts... 24:03,940 of Athenian democracy (there’s a lot, but he is great), who wrote 24:11,040 several books on the subject and summarised them in a single book to make them accessible. 24:16,270 And there’s a second book which I, also highly recommend... | and even more, because I think it’s the most important 24:23,660 book on sortition and the political organisation of the country... 24:27,900 24:29,050 Its title isn’t very engaging though: "Principles of representative governement... hum... 24:33,920 If you see it on a bookshelf, you may say: "I’ll leave it here for now and might look at it tomorrow..." 24:38,035 You’re wrong: it’s a very good book. 24:41,245 It’s the story of sortition, the story of the time where we lost this conception, this importance of sortition. 24:49,605 Why did election triumph, pros and cons, written with honesty... 24:54,615 He’s a greta guy: Bernand Manin. 24:57,030 I met him, he’s breezy, clever, cultivated. 25:01,930 He is... 25:02,575 He’s someone important [who] didn’t think of advocating for sortition: 25:07,485 He wanted to honestly report on situation. 25:11,390 And his description is so honest that we, who never hear about sortition, may think he’s advocating. 25:17,625 However, he also defends elections; which is fair, like Tocqueville did. 25:22,000 25:24,640 So Hansen describes this desynchronization which shows that... 25:30,060 ... 25:31,060 25:32,215 wealthy people of the time often were... OFTEN HAD NO political power. 25:35,260 They were “aliens” like we call them, [they were] strangers. 25:37,875 Athenians often invited them [because of and] with their wealth 25:41,490 so they allowed them to seat, guaranteeing that their assets would not be taken.. 25:46,300 Finally, the wealthy, these “aliens” run their businesses and lived quite comfortably, | they were very well settled, they had no political power, | but apparently, during 200 years, it didn’t prevent them from thriving. 25:57,380 Athens was a very prosperous city. 25:59,540 So I’m not saying... 26:01,385 I know it was colonialist, declared wars, went on expeditions, like all the people at that time. 26:07,060 I’m not saying we should live like Athenians! 26:09,335 I’m only saying that, compared to other cities of the time, it was remarkably stable, 26:16,300 prosperous, with an intense political activity. 26:21,190 And.. I think THE GERM is transposable today... 26:28,680 (Castoriadis, a great philospher, said that... 26:33,860 Athens is not a model, because there are lots of things that we don’t want [to take] from Athenian society, but it is A GERM.) 26:39,810 And I think the germ exists: this thing, this thing the wealthy people never rule... 26:45,890 [Good god :-)], doesn’t it ring a bell to you? 26:50,015 [Well !]... and that poor people always rule! 26:53,210 Well well well! That’s it!... 26:55,625 And that makes a huge difference!! 26:58,275 — "Yes, it’s a detail, let’s discuss something else...." — "Wait, no, no, no..." Think! 27:01,750 27:02,505 So, well, anyway... 27:04,710 27:08,910 As a matter fact, looking at 200 years of history [of tests]... 27:14,060 200 years of experiences with sortition and election, with the relationships between the wealthy and the poor and exercice of power, all this is virtually negative [day/night, white/black]. 27:22,750 It is... 27:23,810 The result is the total opposite.. 27:26,380 But now, I’m talking abour FACTS, NOT MYTHS.. 27:28,220 I’m not talking about the sacred cow, “the universal suffrage as historical conquest of the working class” 27:36,070 LOOK AT THE FACTS 27:37,430 WHO RULES THANKS TO ELECTIONS? 27:39,120 27:40,100 Who rules thanks to elections? 27:41,900 The poor ones? 27:43,230 No, never (or marginally). 27:46,860 Even when Blum [Front populaire in 1936] was elected... 27:49,175 You know that Blum, before [governing], Blum appointed a Minister of finance... 27:54,900 27:55,775 (that was Auriol) 27:56,790 So he appointed him, 27:58,655 and, as was usually the case during the 3rd republic — election — 28:03,290 the Minister of finance, BEFORE taking on his mandate | and doing his job as a Minister,, where did he go? 28:08,825 (room: to the Banque de France...) 28:09,670 He went to the Banque de France, 28:11,470 to the Banque de France office: 28:12,950 the manager of the Banque de France... lthe governor of the Banque de France, | was at the same time President of the Comité des Forges, that is the head of the MEDEF (French business confederation) at the time; the same guy. 28:20,220 (room: it was private at the time...) 28:22,780 Of course, the Banque de France was private, everything was private. 28:25,740 28:27,770 [And] the Minister of finance, BEFORE being allowed to do his job... 28:31,600 28:32,450 promised the Governor of the Banque de France — who was also [President] of the Comité des Forges—, what did he PROMISE? 28:38,495 ... THAT HE WOULD NOT RAISE... 28:39,850 28:40,610 ... SALARIES! THAT WAS THE AIM. 28:42,585 So the “left” party is eventually elected... 28:46,195 But the “left” party, before having the power, must promise the wealthy ones... 28:50,190 (room: allegiance) 28:51,185 here we are: ... the worst of the worst is guaranteed for us. 28:55,155 So we must understand that even when we elect people who will supposedly [defend the interests of the not so wealthy]... 28:58,605 ... look at what happened in 1981! Mitterrand is elected... 29:01,190 I was singing, I was happy, Mitterrand... 29:04,420 Wait a minute, how long did it take him to betray us ? To do what even the extreme right parties [themselves] would never have done? 29:11,415 That’s the left party... 29:12,670 That’s the result of elections! 29:13,800 (room: he’s the one who most contributed to debt) 29:15,270 Yes, debt, absolutely! 29:17,750 29:19,370 (room: he was on the left side of the extreme right) 29:20,935 He wasn’t even on the left side: he was on the right. 29:24,010 He WAS [from the start] on the right, and then, in fact, he betrayed us... | All this people fool us with words, for let me remind you that we are quite sensitive to lies. 29:30,090 (room: the story has now been revealed... with Mitterrand, l'Oréal, etc, | because it is also linked to the US Federal reserve through the nazis. Anyway, we’ll discuss it another day). 29:40,000 So, I think there’s no need to tell more about how the left parties betrayed us once they got the power... 29:47,930 I mean, we are so disappointed, all of us... there’s no need to tell more, I’m no exception. 29:53,500 I think that the ALTERNATIVE is what makes my speech original. 29:59,105 But I’m sorry to say that the alternative is not for today... 30:02,060 30:03,450 it won’t be for now, we must first pass the message around and be millions to defend this idea: 30:08,610 as long as there’s only a few of us (100 or 1000 people), it won’t be enough, nothing will change. 30:13,390 It must be propagated, each one of us must do this work of explanation for others to understand, 30:20,490 to stop buying the lies, fables, myths, and when you look at the facts, you realize that... 30:27,165 ... we’re being told this is social progress... | ... but you don’t get social progress as long as the wealthy rule. 30:33,890 The wealthy do not want social progress. 30:37,215 Look at Athenians’ experience: that was 2500 years ago and is quite interesting. 30:42,700 So... 30:43,735 Practically speaking, 30:46,470 today, if we had to draw lots, we would be AFRAID of doing it: 30:52,640 when I go to assemblies, I am told: "but what if Le Pen was drawn?!"... 30:56,925 30:58,275 They are afraid of Le Pen... 31:00,620 Meanwhile supporters of Le Pen would feel the same about a communist being drawn. | Well, what if someone you don’t like at all is sorted, hmm ? 31:06,260 31:08,800 Well, Athenians had the same concern, 31:10,660 exactly the same concern. 31:13,120 They were afraid of certain people they absolutely didn’t want to see elected. 31:16,995 This also existed back then. 31:18,760 Still... 31:20,100 that’s the way they chose and it worked well. 31:22,225 So they must have come up with something more. 31:23,910 And it’s this section, the bottom right of the diagram, 31:25,550 31:26,910 where I grouped some institutions designed to correct the sortition, they are written in green, | (you can find this on the website [http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/ centralite_du_tirage_au_sort_en_democratie.pdf], 31:32,880 along with commentaries, what I’m telling you right now, and what I forgot since I’m now improvising, 31:40,575 I may forget one or two points now but you can find them there: | the text of what appears (to me, not forgetting many things) to be needed as added commentaries of this diagram. 31:50,535 So, with these here institutions, Athenians protected themselves against a “messy sortition”. 31:57,010 So, you must understand that these were SHORT AND NON-RENEWABLE MANDATES. | Short mandates would last for 6 months, a year, rarely more, and non-renewable. 32:05,670 Non-renewable within the same function. Which means that if I’ve been drawn for a function, | I can be drawn for another, but no longer for this one. 32:12,620 Anyway... Well, there were variations... 32:15,160 Anyway, this was absolutely essential. I put it in those institutions. It’s the very heart of a democracy, it’s the core... 32:25,080 Remove this and you’ve lost... you’ve lost democracy. 32:28,400 32:30,110 So there are MANDATES and there are CONTROLS... 32:34,210 This is very important. (I must not forget to mention this when we get to the summary because between election and sortition, | what makes it clever, the very core... It’s the very core. But I’ll come back to it later.) 32:43,925 So the MANDATE is HIGHLY CONTROLLED: | BEFORE it, DURING its course, AT THE END of it, and AFTER it as well. 32:52,660 Controls were permanent: One must realize that the drawee was AFRAID. 32:56,600 32:58,040 It was nothing like today’s elected representatives. 32:59,700 I don’t know if you can see the difference, the drawees had a SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY, a duty, | they didn’t come to take advantage while being unpunished, irresponsible... 33:10,465 It has nothing to do with that. So.. 33:13,210 BEFORE the mandate, which controls were in place to avoid a messy sortition? 33:17,010 • VOLUNTEERING: which means that only those who attended the assembly in the morning would be drawn. | (there were roughly 6000 people in the assembly, it was variable, but roughly speaking) 33:26,130 and about 2000 people who presented themselves for the day’s lottery. 33:32,340 There was a machine, a "Kleroterion". 33:34,445 (You can see on the website how this [lottery and kleroterion] worked. | There’s a very good book by Sintomer "Power to the people", it’s very interesting and shows all the experiences... 33:44,390 ... all past and current experiences, (lots of current), of sortition in the world’s institutions. 33:52,950 That’s a lot of experiences, failures, successes... It is... 33:58,475 ... it is quite exciting because it shows that it’s not a mere theory, it does work, and lots of people use it. 34:03,400 http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/Ressources_UPCPA/ UP_d_Aix_sur_le_tirage_au_sort_kleroterion_Sintomer_ Montesquieu_Tocqueville.pdf ) 34:05,635 Why was I talking about this? I was talking about this “kleroterion" because in Sintomer’s book | "Power to the people”, chapter 2 explains how the kleroterion worked, 34:11,880 and it says that every morning, balls, white balls, black balls, | it’s a funny thing to see, quite materialistic, everyone could check what was going on. 34:19,960 A bit like in polling stations, you can go there, it is in your interest to go check that everything is being done properly. 34:25,620 Kleroterion is the same, everyone could watch the lottery machine, | and it was quite rustic and transparent, so cheating wasn’t easy. 34:30,965 No computer involved. How about computer-polling machines, I mean seriously, where are the tools to destroy them? | Let’s tear them down with an axe, since we’re obviously going to be fooled now. Polling machines are... 34:42,785 POLLING MACHINES MUST NOT BE TOLERATED. It’s plain obvious. 34:45,380 (room: we’ve already been fooled) 34:46,920 It’s already the case. It’s unbelievable that we let it happen. Anyway... 34:49,975 Anyway, in the morning, there were volunteers. So what Montesquieu highlighted, is that... 34:54,985 ... this volunteering institution... We could discuss it on my website’s forum | (http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20), discuss whether 35:01,160 35:01,990 "do we draw lots among volunteers, ... 35:04,470 or among everyone, allowing them to refuse ?" 35:08,020 [in both cases] only “volunteers” are kept, | but “volunteer” has a different meaning if the person was VOLUNTEERING BEFORE, or ACCEPTED AFTER being designated. 35:17,700 Because one who volunteered before obviously wants the power [which is dangerous in itself]. 35:21,040 But when this happens on a daily basis for short and non-renewable mandates, | [one cannot “want” the “power” the same way our current professional politicians do. It does not apply] ; 35:26,685 It’s different from elections [where candidates intend to become PROFESSIONALS of politics]. 35:29,035 But note the difference: being a candidate, is different from being designated [without asking for it] and accepting for the common good. 35:42,300 And you’d see that lots of people do not want the power... 35:45,000 35:45,975 ... but accept it because that’s the way it works, because they’re sensitive people. 35:49,500 35:50,535 And there’s lots of them. 35:51,900 These people don’t have the same qualities as those who currently rule, | obviously here to take advantage, it’s unbeliev... anyway... 36:00,230 I’ll soon be considered as a populist, demagogue, or fascist, I can feel it, since I’m against the parliament, and then maybe even a nazi. Here we are... 36:10,435 But when you see someone.. who simultaneously carries out several mandates, deputy, advisor of this, president of that... 36:17,960 and who, on top of that, will freelance as a lawyer in order to POCKET A FEW MORE DOZENS OF GRANDS... 36:22,620 It really is disgusting, it’s just sheer greed. 36:26,890 Those elected people, I mean what they become, quite often they are not all like this at first... | Some elected people start off while still young, and at the beginning of their career are not corrupted yet. | BUT roughly anyway, the reason why they are here is to “stuff” themselves. 36:38,410 If you look at how people lived back then (2500 years ago, under true democracy), | it was totally different : people had a sense of duty, | and they were rewarded, but not with money. 36:48,520 So... 36:49,765 they were paid to take part in the assembly, but very little: a worker’s half day salary ! They really earned very little... 36:55,580 But they would be rewarded, you’ll see when we talk about REWARDS, they were HONOURS/DISTINCTIONS. 36:59,300 No money : honours. human beings like that. 37:02,575 Lots of people do lots of things to get distinctions, for glory, to have the impression that | they served the common good, and other people’s opinion is enough for them. | Acknowledgement by other people is enough. Lots of people operate this way. 37:13,100 YOU’VE GOT TO BE A BIT INSANE IF YOU ONLY ACT FOR MONEY. | Yes indeed, a bit deranged, like a drug addict, a bit... 37:20,365 (audience: unbalanced) 37:21,160 a bit unbalanced, BUT... NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE THIS, | LOTS OF PEOPLE CONTENT THEMSELVES WITH THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS, THE PEACEFUL AND GRATEFUL RELATIONSHIP FOR THE OTHER PERSON’S EFFORTS. 37:30,780 So institutions would work like this In any case... 37:33,770 Montesquieu undeligned (I was talking about volunteering), that is was very important: | according to him, sortition was not perfect, but it was MADE VIRTUOUS by complementary institutions which would correct the defaults. 37:46,725 He would say: volunteering AND PUNISHMENT, (because you’ll see that there’s a lot of punishments), | the combination of both entailed that there were few volunteers [who were kindof “sorted”]. 37:57,400 Because when you know that you [may be punished, you participate [only] if you have a real project, if you feel that you must do it for the community. 38:03,715 (audience: were they allowed to resign?) 38:04,820 I don’t know... they [could] be revoked, but I’ don’t know if they were allowed to resign. I’m not sure of it. 38:11,250 Anyway, I don’t know, it should be checked. I haven’t read anything about it. It doesn’t ring a bell to me. 38:16,350 I think they would commit. They would commit and the funny thing [so far from what our “elected representatives” risk today], | is to see how they would be blamed at the end, when they had to report or later on, 38:23,915 and they would defend themselves (and it worked) by saying; "wait a minute, you have to remember that I’m like you". And it worked as a mean of defence | because people would see that he/she committed, accepted to be drawn and tried hardl... 38:36,040 Well he/she wasn’t... a rotten oligarch, and he/she’s not punished. 38:40,960 So there was a RISK of punishment, but obviously punishment was not systematic. 38:45,220 So volunteering associated to an actual risk, potentially severe, of punishment, (which could go as far as death penalty... Anyway... 38:55,000 I’m not saying this... because it’s [obviously] not transposable, | but I mean [they were] severe punishments, for these times) 39:00,950 .... lthe combination of both [(volunteering and severe punishment)] made | volunteering a real FILTER against awful or silly people | or people whom you fear might be drawn. You understand what I mean? 39:10,310 What I mean, is that, the answer to the objection: “we’re gonna have idiots” 39:14,950 is no: we will eliminate most of them like this. 39:19,040 • Then we had “DOCIMASY", a sort of test. Not a competency test because [reminder: core objective =] political equality, | we all have the same political skills, [docimasy,] was an ability test.. 39:29,570 The aim was to spot the insane,, lunatic ones... To get rid of them. 39:34,865 Or the guy... who didn’t take good care of his parents... (funny to see how important it was for them), | this guy was blacklisted, He wouldn’t be allowed [to be candidate]... Anyway... 39:42,160 Certain abilities allowed to blacklist people, which was another filter. So, 39:48,590 if we wrote or institutions ourselves, we would foresee.. we would think about it | and we would say which docimasy we want, which test is [desirable], "what is need to...", 39:57,590 checking that it is not a priviledge, to avoid what scares us. 40:06,150 40:07,130 So: a preliminary test. 40:08,675 • And then"OSTRACISM". Ostracism sounds quite negative today. 40:13,375 Today, “ostracism” is bad. 40:16,960 But at that time, it was... it was not negatively connoted, | it was part of the basic sound principles for democracy. 40:23,535 Ostracism comes from "ostrakon" a piece of pottery, thus broken potteries., 40:30,800 you would take a piece of pottery and engrave the name of someone you feared on it. 40:34,855 So before that, in the assembly, a citizen proposed to launch the ostracisme procedure. 40:40,260 People would accept or refuse, but if they accepted, if the assembly... (not the representatives right? the assembly), | is the assembly said: "yes, we must [use] ostracism" (because several people are afraid)... 40:50,595 the procedure was launched, under which anyone who is afraid of somebody... 40:55,145 (he’s afraid of this great orator: "oh my god, this guy is taking the power; he is.. he speaks too well..." 41:00,000 — that’s [often] the reason why they would “ostracise” people — 41:02,530 "He’s a very good speaker” or "he is plotting, he is... he’s scaring us", for some reason...) 41:08,740 [so,] his name would be engraved on an ostrakon, 41:10,825 a little piece of pottery, and then ostrakons and names were counted,, 41:14,720 and the one whose name was engraved most frequently on ostrakons was... he was not killed, 41:21,830 his assets were not seized, he wasn’t dishonoured, but REMOVED FROM POLITICAL ACTIVITY for 10 years. 41:27,360 It is not a [barbarian horror]... and many others did not participate in political life: let me remind you that women, | slaves, strangers — people who would [sometimes] lead a very comfortable way of life, strangers (who could be very wealthy) — 41:37,060 these people were outside politics, so they didn’t attend the assembly, they were not citizens... It wasn’t difficult. 41:42,760 Anyway, democracy itself had an important “wheel” which allowed to... 41:50,025 not to kill but to REMOVE from political life, for 10 years, someone who was feared. 41:55,480 So, realise that it’s something that is still lacking today: 41:58,740 today, when two candidates are presented... 42:01,250 42:02,470 (take any example you want in... in your country’s recent past) 42:08,185 you’ve got two candidates who seem to be “villains”, 42:11,440 what do you do? 42:13,000 You’re stuck, you’ve got to choose between two evils. 42:16,210 You can’t even use the blank vote which means: "but I want them out!". 42:19,900 We could have a blank vote meaning... 42:22,550 THE POLITICAL MEANING OF BLANK VOTE: "I DON’T WANT ANY OF THESE" 42:27,930 or "THE QUESTION YOU’RE ASKING IS SILLY I DON’T WANT TO ANSWER IT". 42:30,940 Blank vote means: “go back home, we don’t care about this question” | or : "rgo back home, [you] candidates, and give me other candidates". 42:37,495 However, blank vote is interpreted [today as... being NULL | it is combined with other null [votes] and thrown away! 42:44,055 This is revolting! Why? who wrote these rules? Who wrote these rules which mix blank vote and null vote? 42:50,300 42:51,380 Elected representatives! Which is quite normal. 42:54,530 We can’t blame them: it’s [mostly] OUR FAULT WE LEFT THEM WRITE THE CONSTITUTION. 42:59,590 It’s just our fault. I insist. It’s your fault, every one of us, and me included, because we let them do. 43:06,825 WE SHOULDN’T LET ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES WRITE THE CONSTITUTION. 43:09,360 They do not write that blank vote should be implemented; they do not mention referendum proposed by popular initiative; 43:12,650 they do not mention short and non renewable mandates, obviously not; | they do not write that at least one chamber out of two should be drawn 43:20,685 they do not speak about citizens’ juries; they do not write... | They do not write the institutions we need. 43:25,960 43:26,745 Well, I’m anticipating but it’s easy to guess: 43:29,050 MEN IN POWER SHOULD NOT WRITE THE RULES OF POWER. PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS, | MEMBERS OF PARTIES SHOULD NOT WRITE THE RULES OF POWER. 43:36,130 EVEN IF YOU LIKE THE PARTY IN QUESTION. 43:38,270 Take time to understand, ponder it, if you belong to a party. (you can... 43:41,975 obviously, because it’s the only thing we have to fight, I’m not blaming you for belonging to a party!) 43:45,860 But what I mean, what you need to understand, is that, WHATEVER PARTY YOU MAY BELONG TO, | you must understand that if you want power,, YOUR HONOUR, is TO NOT write the constitution.. 43:56,010 If you want power and if you want to write the constitution at the same time, | you already tend to be an oligarch you are “stealing the power”. 44:04,130 You are... 44:05,850 you’re preparing yourself to be “judge and jury” to write rules for yourself and fool the others. 44:10,040 (audience: that’s what happened with the European constitution) 44:12,025 ... European, obviously: European, French... De Gaulle who wrote for himself... 44:16,915 There are so many examples, they’re all... take all the constitutions in the world (except from Venezuela, [maybe]...) 44:21,585 and except [the Athenian one] obviously which was written by Solonas, Clisthenes, and... | Solonas left : after writing , he left.. 44:28,410 left for 10 years. So he didn’t write the rules for himself [And] casually, he wrote a democracy. 44:32,900 44:36,110 So after that... 44:39,610 These are controls “before” the mandate. Controls “during” the mandate are easy to understand: 44:43,220 • Drawees were REVOCABLE: 44:44,930 If someone saw that a drawee starts to default, to not work properly, | during the mandate, the Assembly could revoque him AT ANY TIME. 44:53,400 SO aren’t you reassured? Does that apply to elected representatives? Well, you see! | It goes along [with sortition iyou’ve got to understand]. 45:00,500 These controls are included. I’ll come back [to this] after looking back on it. 45:04,480 The common point is that WE ASSUME THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT GOOD. 45:13,720 WE ASSUME CONFLICTS, we assume that people are not perfect, | we assume that virtue is not natural, not spontaneous, not innate. 45:22,060 We assume this and take it into account in institutions since we understood and assumed it, well CONTROLS ARE IMPLEMENTED EVERYWHERE 45:27,770 So after that, you’re less busy with it; I’ll come back to this but you’ll see that | finally, this system is MUCH MORE SOLID FOR BIG STRUCTURES, big sizes 45:37,050 If Europe was built according to this model, you could forget about it since there are controls everywhere. 45:41,900 45:43,060 So, with the elections which assume that they are.. [virtuous simply because they were elected, | they’re trying to make us believe that we don’t need controls betwee two elections!]... 45:44,520 (audience: we could justly be interested) 45:46,425 So we could be interested... That means, we could do both. 45:49,990 We’ll get back to this when we talk about an objection which consists in saying: "yes, but sortition was fine because they were dealing with small sizes, | whereas election [is necessary because we [now are many]". 45:55,840 It’s just the opposite: elections should be used for small sizes, | and sortition would work better in a large scale system. 46:02,500 46:03,510 So let me quicly summarise [the list of protective institutions to know]: revocability, is easy to understand. 46:06,310 • ACCOUNTABILITY, that is having to report at the end [of the mandate]. | Can you imagine if your elected representatives had an accountability for you? 46:10,845 They report to you and after that, during... he had that power for a year and then | for six months, sometimes a year... accountability takes time, it would take a lot of time 46:19,605 (By the way, other people were drawn to control the drawees. | Other drawees right... they controlled one another) 46:27,660 So, for a year, they had to explain why they had done this and that... 46:32,110 Wait a minute, it’s much more protective that our sytem, this thing is a 1,000 times more protective! 46:36,960 You’re telling me: "what if we drew this villain one"... but look at all the controls.. 46:42,270 I mean: it’s not [only] "sortition instead of election": we’re thinking and not obliged to do it blindly. 46:45,950 We can do it like they did, by thinking. 46:49,390 It means that we [use] sortition because we have AN OBJECTIVE to reach | so, since we see that tere are disadvantages, we make the institutions that go with them. 46:57,275 After that, everything is consistent, it’s much more clever than our system; much better for the common good. 47:03,790 Less interesting for the banks... | but for the common good, this system is much better... 47:08,130 For the banks, it is, it is... but in my opinion they know what’s gonna happen... too bad. 47:12,250 Anyway, the last complementary institution of sortition | (which shows that “villains” don’t have to be feared, is... 47:20,400 that AFTER the mandate, fi someone said: “there’s a guy | who made the assembly invade another island and we lost. 47:31,170 So the guy who lead us to take this decision, we’re gonna.." 47:35,320 • So that was “esangelia", the possibility to publicly blame, therefore publicly accuse, | which means that anyone who potentially accuses someone who harmed democracy... 47:49,960 Well we must temper that, I’m just giving you... orientations, all these are orientations for us, and then we’ll see what... | Maybe controls should be limited, [so] there aren’t too many, to avoid paralysing people.. 48:01,510 Anyway, Athenian institutions were strict. 48:05,305 • AFTER THE END of the mandate, the assembly could change their mind, by saying: "we made a mistake, let’s correct it" : that was called "Graphe para nomon", a procedure allowing to modify [a past decision] which means that the... 48:20,485 (audience: like???) 48:21,245 (Yes exactly..) Athenian society had built institutions allowing —LIKE FOR ANY HUMAN BEING— TO TAKE DECISIONS | while knowing that they could make mistakes AND COULD MODIFY DECISIONS WHEN THEY WERE WRONG. 48:36,550 They built a BODY capable of... like any human being, correcting | and going back on decisions, adapting [(in real time, not only every five years)]. 48:46,040 It’s so much more clever... So much more clever... 48:49,640 In any case, it’s much more PROTECTIVE than our current systems and finally, the whole thing, | in light of this result [(disynchronisation between economic and political power)] | which is absolutely crucial for prosperity and the common good... 49:04,080 it could.. it should be tested! 49:06,670 The second part of what I want to tell you, deals with "OBJECTIONS AND REFUTATIONS" : 49:12,045 So here are four or five common objections: 49:14,810 49:16,530 • The first one is... 49:19,270 "but VILLAINS ARE GOING TO RULE!" 49:21,500 49:22,690 "… with your system… We’re gonna let... we’re gonna let bastards.. or idiots... villains... rule". 49:33,080 Not at all: • first of all, they’re not “ruling”: 49:35,180 the guy you’re gonna draw will NOT rule!!! 49:39,680 REPRESENTATIVES DO NOT EXERT POWER[ IN A DEMOCRACY] : THE ASSEMBLY DOES! 49:43,890 So representatives help us.. 49:46,160 49:46,980 they do what the assembly cannot do: 49:49,280 They prepare the agenda, they display the agenda, | they check that the assembly is disciplined, they implement decisions [police, justice], | they draw lots, they take care of accountability and finally punishments... 50:04,230 They do what the assembly CANNOT do [itself]. 50:06,410 They actually SERVE us. 50:08,470 They’re NOT OUR MASTERS! 50:10,080 WITH ELECTIONS, WE CHOOSE OUR MASTERS. 50:12,155 WITH SORTITION, WE SAY: "NO, WE DON’T NEED MASTERS". 50:14,830 50:16,435 It’s totally different: it’s not only a procedure to change; a democracy is DIFFERENT from what we know. 50:22,125 What we know today consists in designating masters. 50:26,000 (audience: whom we call “representatives”) 50:27,280 Whom we call... [or rather] who call [themselves] "our representatives", to better mislead us. 50:31,690 you see that they’re fooling us, no need to draw it... 50:35,045 Hmm, so.. 50:37,800 50:38,925 To the bjection: "we’re going to designate villains, to choose villains to rule", the first answer is: "the drawees are not going to rule since they d’ont have the power". 50:47,970 • And the second [answer] is: "there are lots of institutions to filter them”. 50:51,990 I’m not coming back ti [it]: there are lots of institutions to get rid of them [or] punish them... 50:55,635 So there’s NOTHING TO FEAR in this regard. Well, my opinion is that there’s much less to fear... | Because [you] think that elections don’t give the power to villains? 51:00,730 It seems that [elections] choose them. It seems that [with elections], the worst govern.. 51:03,840 51:04,705 By the way.. 51:09,100 51:11,640 I... 51:12,800 51:13,910 I think that this book... (I don’t know... I must have... 51:18,370 51:19,500 1500 or 2000 books at home, I’ve got lots of books, I read a lot) 51:23,480 but if I had to keep a book [among] all them... 51:26,550 51:27,550 this one is wonderful: “Propos sur le pouvoir" by Alain [(and all "Propos", by the way)], | but "Propos sur les pouvoirs" by Alain, is my favourite, it’s something, you read it over and over again, you.. 51:38,070 it’s [pure] intelligence, it’s... it’s very very very very useful. It’s really a good book | you can get when you’re a teenager, and it follows you for the rest of your life. 51:47,155 "Propos sur les pouvoirs", is great. 51:48,760 So in his "Propos", Alain says that... 51:53,750 51:54,550 and you’ll see that these three little sentences with a subject, a verb, a complement, quite short but including everything. 51:59,030 Everything to condemn elections... 52:01,385 To condemn elections... 52:02,920 As long as I hadn’t found sortition, I thought I could kill myself | ([with] this sentence] because it was so true, it was [like] a trap: there was no escape. 52:08,485 But with sortition [this strong idea of Alain’s is no longer implacable]... | So what was Alain saying?... 52:11,710 He was saying... [in three short sentences]: 52:12,720 52:13,690 “GOOD PEOPLE DON’T CARE ABOUT GOVERNING”. 52:17,100 52:18,100 In old French, it’s a way of saying: “they don’t want to govern”. 52:20,790 "Good people don’t feel like governing. 52:23,700 52:25,800 « IT’S ALL HERE. » 52:26.670 52:27,620 « IN OTHER WORDS, THE WORST WILL GOVERN. » 52:29,540 52:30,800 It’s true, if you wait... 52:32,870 if you have a system [based on] elections [therefore] on candidates | and that good people do not want [to be candidates], they won’t be candidates. 52:38,595 Well, you’ll only see villains. 52:40,460 Yes! The worst will govern! Here we are! 52:44,000 Here we are [look around you]: Paulson participates in the US government. 52:48,705 You’ve got Paulson, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld… Evil! All of them! 52:54,770 The most horrendous. 52:57,860 (audience: Obama is not better) 52:59,480 Exactly! (audience: dance of the vampires) 53:01,700 53:02,770 In France, you’ve got Sarkozy; in Italy, Berlusconi; | in England, Tony Blair... [Everywhere,] the worst... 53:11,370 The worst of the... the... 53:13,660 53:14,375 a while ago, I said “prostitutes” but I shouldn’t say so because it’s not nice for prostitutes. 53:17,640 We need to find a more serious word, because prostitutes... "prostitutes”, we all are, we too, without doing it on purpose. 53:24,360 No, it’s worse than... [they are] villains. “Villains” is a good word. 53:29,260 53:31,970 So we won’t say “prostitutes”, because prostitutes are our friends we’ll say “villains”. 53:38,070 Second objection: 53:39,715 And you’ll see, when you... Because if you play the game I’m suggesting, which consists in... 53:46,170 53:47,060 (if the seed grows in your brains), planting others yourself | because it’s the only way it can work, I’m telling you it is... 53:53,850 if 40 of us... are convinced of this, [and] since it doesn’t grow, it won’t make ANY difference, it won’t change ANYTHING. 54:01,890 However, if you grow the seed I suggest that you plant, you will read, | you will strengthen it, you water it, you add fertilizer, and it becomes beautiful, 54:15,100 And if you plant it somewhere else, in 40 [other brains], it will definitely grow, and very quickly! 54:21,530 54:23,145 So, the objections I’m talking about, you have to know them, and you have to know how they can be contradicted, | Because you’ll see... people will answer the same thing as I. 54:29,670 • So the second objection, is... 54:31,480 54:35,900 54:37,200 54:38,270 "you are applying a regime which would work at a small scale, 54:42,625 but today, AT A LARGE SCALE, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to apply it". 54:46,670 So, 2 minutes, 2 minutes, 2 minutes... 2 minutes ! 54:49,900 54:50,900 Elections… bet that we know people... [don’t they?] 54:55,145 The fact that we ELECT them, means that we KNOW them! 54:57,300 (audience: hum...) 54:58,430 Yes it does... Well, [otherwise,] how can you elect (that is CHOOSE) if you don’t know them?! 55:03,665 Elections themselves... (otherwise they're purely misleading us)... | Elections imply, That we know people [candidates, elected representatives]. 55:12,000 55:14,030 And that’s not all! Since elections are supposed to be the only counter-power... [since] the only punishment when they make mistakes, is to NOT be reelected, | it implies [at least] that we know what they did while they were elected. 55:27,340 55:28,720 They’re fooling us at State or European level! 55:33,400 Do you know... Do you know the people you elected at Europen level? | Not at all. You know [very little]... you saw them 30 seconds on TV... 55:41,395 And when they are in Europe, there, you can’t see ANYTHING, you don’t have any idea about what they do! 55:44,840 So ELECTION, ARE NOT ADAPTED TO LARGE SCALES AT ALL! 55:47,965 They are adapted to small scales: 55:50,465 the town... You know your mayor, you can see him/her every day, 55:53,710 you can call him/her, he/she knows you, you know him/her... 55:56,545 ELECTIONS WORK WELL AT A SMALL SCALE. 55:58,900 56:00,040 And since elections choose, idealistically bet, UNREALISTICALLY BET that people are virtuous, | that elected representatives (like a miracle) would become gods, are able to decide, | master every subject, nuclear issues, GMOs, all this stuff, they are “proficient/experts”, 56:16,845 so, there are NO CONTROLS because elected representatives supposedly "represent the nation” | that’s why we TRUST them so there’s no control... 56:25,115 But it totally contradicts large scales! 56:28,560 I mean, A BIG ORGANISATION, needs it [showing on the diagram the list of protecting institutions]: | [a big organisation] NEEDS LOTS OF CONTROLS, NEEDS TO ASSUME THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT NATURALLY GOOD... 56:40,700 56:42,390 AND THAT CONTROLS ARE NECESSARY EVERYWHERE! Yes indeed, controls are necessary... | [Elected representatives] don’t like them? Well, that’s too bad: they're not the ones who decide... 56:48,250 That’s too bad: they don’t decide. 56:49,470 If they decide, they won’t implement any control! Look at todays’ situation: 56:52,770 They write constitutions... 56:54,275 They don’t implement any controls. Yes indeed... BUT THAT’S NORMAL! 56:57,515 IT’S OUR FAULT, BECAUSE WE LET THEM WRITE CONSTITUTIONS! 56:59,900 THEY SHOULD NOT WRITE CONSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES. 57:01,650 57:03,745 So, when you hear: "ok, sortition was fine with small groups, small cities, | and would not work with bigger ones", [you can answer] the [exact] OPPOSITE... 57:11,600 57:12,190 • Next objection (that I spot), I’m being told: "but with your system, | opinions are never gonna be the same, the [one in charge] will never be the same, | you draw a new person every day. Wait a minute, opinions will change every day! 57:22,320 How will you be able to implement a long term policy? Have some kind of vision for the future?..." 57:29,430 You see, that's what they’re telling you by saying: "sortition won’t lead you anywhere. | You change persons, you change policies, it will be... it won’t be straightforward". 57:37,255 • Forst of all: WHY NOT? All living bodies are not straightforward. 57:40,750 Take any child who learns that... "ooops it’s burning!" The following time, he won’t go, | He will take another [decision]: yes, he tried once, But he won’t try a second time And any living body works like this. 57:48,420 Why wouldn’t that apply to modern society, with an Assembly that would [sometimes] make mistakes and not be straightforward? 57:53,270 That’s the first [response to the objection]. Most importantly, this objection which consists in saying | "they’re always gonna change their minds, that’s not true: Drawees [are not the ones] who decide!" 58:01,890 Drawees [are not] he ones who decide: the Assembly does. 58:04,710 THE ASSEMBLY IS STABLE; IT’S ALWAYS THE SAME PEOPLE... 58:08,025 Athenians didn’t have any problems taking decisions: | the same ones would always decide. So... 58:14,190 they were about 30,000 people with only 6,000 within the Assembly. 58:18,210 So they would not attend the Assembly all the time, they would work, and sometimes they would go to the Assembly. When they [felt like it], they would go to the Assembly. 58:23,545 So, when you feel like attending the Assembly, you just go; if it’s full, “you’ll come back tomorrow”... 58:27,350 The Assembly would roughly, have a body of citizens... 58:31,280 When you speak about the city’s problems in he Assembly (what are we gonna do... should we open a mine, Should we do this, what are we... | gonna do with this land, this swamp, should we let it dry or not? 58:41,870 When you speak to the Assembly, Yourself, you talk about the city’s issues, | well, when you leave the Assembly, you’re gonna talk about it to toher people. 58:49,200 And in fact, the whole city [therefore] becomes constantly impregnated by the city’s issues. 58:54,020 Which means that delegating, is not essential at all: | Leaving your powers to elected representatives is no fate: Elected representatives decided it [themselves], you didn't! 59:05,250 Have you ever said: “I think elections are important and I renounce to sortition”? 59:09,800 You were not even aware that sortition existed... 59:11,945 I mean: ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DECIDED THAT THEY HAD TO BE ELECTED! 59:16,065 THIS IS NO FATE. 59:17,600 59:18,460 So, to me, [the objection]: "people would always change their minds", is irrelevant/nonsense. 59:21,920 59:23,220 • Next objection: "you will necessarily designated UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE. We live in a complex world." 59:28,990 "Listen to me, we’re talking about nuclear issues, that’s... a global geo-strategy, with extremely complicated things... 59:38,615 So you’re going to designate anyone... 59:40,950 59:41,845 Unqualified people…" 59:43,800 59:44,690 Are you joking? Do you think that elected representatives are qualified? 59:46,915 Do you know how many atomic bombs have been thrown into the atmosphere, yes, I said the atmosphere? 59:50,960 You know Fukushima, it’s like small fumes, But I’m talking about atomic bombs. (audience: these are no small fumes!) 59:56,035 No, no, no, but I mean small fums COMPARED TO Do you know what an atomic bomb is? 1:00:02,625 Into the atmosphere! You see what kind of radioactive mess it is, to throw an atomic bomb? | Do you know how many have been thrown since 1945? 1:00:08,290 Elected representatives... leaders, experts, people like “we-won’t-choose-anyone-we-will-choose-people who are-able--and-qualified-to-do-things-”... 1:00:15,700 Reasonable things... 1:00:17,550 How many atomic bomb? 1:00:18,700 More than 2,000!!! 1:00:20,240 2,000 atomic bombs in the atmosphere! and underground, and in the seas! 1:00:24,945 Directly, there... bam! bam! bam! 1:00:27,230 There is... There is a video... An artist built an inventory of all explosions, along with their dates, [http://dai.ly/dgwD9u] 1:00:35,200 and he made a small video that lasts... I don’t remember, about 10 minutes, and you have a time scale off one second per month and then... or well I don’t remember... approximately... Nevermind the graduation, 1:00:45,700 and then you have the first explosion, just before Hiroshima; it’s in a desert 1:00:51,190 in north America and afterwards you have... bam! bam! The two hits of Hiroshima and Nagasaki... then it’s calm again... 1:00:57,400 1:00:57,970 then it starts exploding again, in a desert in the United States, then it starts exploding... | I don’t remember the order, I think then it’s USSR that starts making explosions, explosions, explosions... bam! bam! bam! It starts to crackle. 1:01:10,520 You know, you need lots of them to reach 2,000. 1:01:12,500 small red dots, here... ta! ta! ta! And then in the sixties... it won’t stop! 1:01:17,505 "They are responsible", you are told: "With drawees, you will designate unqualified people". 1:01:23,310 But they’re fooling us! 1:01:25,840 (audience: French people have managed to irradiate themselves) 1:01:27,720 Exactly, but we’re gonna reach... I mean, when an atomic bomb explodes, | You do not only irradiate yourself, You irradiate the whole planet... and it will last | For years, all these particles, anyway. 1:01:36,255 And how many... (And now, you’re going to help me...) 1:01:41,300 1:01:43,020 Elected representatives pretend that they are qualified? 1:01:44,525 How many wars have they triggered? How many wars? 1:01:48,215 Who threw napalm and pesticides on Vietnam, millions of litres? 1:01:58,150 Who, who? Elected representatives!! They were elected. 1:02:00,520 Wait a minute, that’s horrible, what they did to Vietnam, absolutely horrible. 1:02:05,490 It’s... it’s... what they did to Vietnma is crazy. 1:02:08,410 It’s... it’s... it’s profoundly revolting, what they did to Vietnam. 1:02:12,525 Elected people did this, “qualified" people. 1:02:15,990 Would a popular assembly have done this? I don’t think so. 1:02:19,655 They may have, but I'm not sure at all. 1:02:22,495 And I... when [citizen] assemblies are organised... 1:02:25,140 You’ll find in this book ("Power to the people" by Sintomer), [stories] about what drawn citizens’ assemblies have decided. 1:02:34,220 1:02:35,445 For instance,in Mali, such assembly Discussed GMOs. 1:02:40,085 People who were not familiar with GMOs at all were drawn. They knew nothing at all about the subject. 1:02:44,670 There were mothers working at home, unionists, farmers, lawyers, all kinds of occupations, | and they were drawn. So, there was an assembly of people who were not familiar with the subject at all. 1:02:56,905 And then, for months, what they did (they had money to do do it, | they had premises to host people), they invited people from Monsanto | And asked them: "why are GMOs necessary [according to you]?". 1:03:07,550 So Monsanto people explained why. 1:03:09,670 Then they invited People from the farmers’ union: "so why don’t you want GMOs?" | So [unionists] explained why. 1:03:13,980 Then they invited people from Bayer (another seed maker) [who explained:] "Well, here’s why we want them"... 1:03:18,405 Then they invited people from South America (who had been using GMOs for a long time) [asking:] them "why did you do this? 1:03:25,170 Are you happy with it? or not? And why do you continue? | Were there any problems? Is everything ok?"... 1:03:29,815 And then, they invited Monsanto people again telling [them] : "these people told us that... what do you answer [them]?". 1:03:34,590 And in the meantime, everybody would watch this: it was all on TV, on the radio, people | could attend meetings and citizens suggest that questions were asked by saying: | "ask him such question because..." indeed, so the question [suggested by the audience] would be asked... 1:03:45,690 Wait a minute, after 6 months, these people are much more qualified than any MP in the world | (an MP who has to deal with all subjects... That’s a joke!). 1:03:52,615 In this case, they focus on a subject... 1:03:54,655 they have no interest, they are not paid by laboratories... | they don’t think about being reelected, they got no financing... 1:04:01,125 They only have a mission, everyone is watching them, They’re gonna become people... no experts... | They’re gonna become ENLIGHTENED people, Much more enlightened than anyone else. 1:04:10,400 1:04:11,410 This a is a model for democracy ! 1:04:13,635 A democracy... Insitutions that would implement a drawn Parliament, 1:04:17,240 sortition : PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT THEY DON’T KNOW 1:04:20,820 This is much more better than pretentious elections, than people who are elected and who think they're God. 1:04:24,680 In this case, people are drawn: They are aware that they don’t know, do what do they do? 1:04:27,450 For each subject, instead of taking decisions themselves, instead of others... 1:04:30,820 The drawees who know that tomorrow They will join “normal” people again, 1:04:35,660 these people, institutions are gonna help them, inviting them to DESIGNATE ANOTHER assembly | a drawn assembly who will SPECIALISE in the problem that is submitted to [them]. 1:04:43,860 Depending on the report made by the specialised Assembly, they will decide upon such or such law. 1:04:49,265 And in the end, if there is any doubt, they [launch] a REFERENDUM. 1:04:52,135 Which means ALL people decide by referendum. 1:04:54,590 But [all] this doesn’t taste the same. Do you understand? 1:04:57,590 So, enventually, the GMO assembly, the Mali assembly decided that "[NO: GMOs, no thank you], unanimously... 1:05:04,260 1:05:05,340 This is striking: unanimously, rather NO; rather no, | because 1) we don’t understand the purpose, we’re not sure it’s gonna be fine, | and [moreover,] 2) nothing proves that it’s not dangerous... 1:05:15,880 So, well: NO, unanimously." 1:05:18,790 Well, I don’t know: I think it’s more [convincing than the opinion of a bunch of experts who are paid by laboratories... [(true)], mainly laboratories which make... GMOs. I think it’s obviously better. 1:05:29,250 So this “expertise” story is bullshit. 1:05:31,520 The doctor MP who has just been elected, or the elected professor, on nuclear issues, they don’t know ANYTHING. 1:05:40,265 About global warming, they don’t know anything [(no more than you)]. | What makes them “experts”... I’m not saying they [are definitely unqualified]: | they will [BECOME] qualified when they start working on a case, [in this case,] they will become qualified. 1:05:48,715 THEIR WORK WILL MAKE THEM QUALIFIED. SAME THING FOR ALL DRAWEES! 1:05:52,000 Drawees are not qualified because they are drawn or elected: THEY ARE QUALIFIED BECAUSE THEY WORK. 1:05:57,760 Their work will make them qualified. 1:05:59,500 So, [lthe objection] "we would necessarily Designate unqualified people is nonsense. 1:06:04,560 1:06:05,510 I’m almost done. 1:06:06,520 1:06:07,345 • [Other frequent objection:] "The Athenian MODEL was based on SLAVERY; PHALLOCRACY AND XENOPHIBIA”. 1:06:14,185 I’m keeping the best for the end. Because [this objection,] you’re gonna hear it. 1:06:18,315 You’re being said: 1:06:23,380 "Athenian democracy was oligarchy: a small group of people | Had the power, and the rest were slaves, women,strangers ... | a very small group of people [would dominate and exploit masses]...". 1:06:33,675 Wait a minute... 1:06:35,545 at that time, on earth... 1:06:37,100 1:06:38,325 it is ANACHRONIC to judge them with tpday’s values when they were... 1:06:45,530 While it was impossible not to be escalvagist at the time. It was quite marginal. 1:06:49,465 When you’ve got everyone around you, all that exists is escavagist, | You are [naturally, simply] esclavagist like everyone else... 1:06:55,675 (audience: it is as if we said, We’ve got cats and dogs) 1:06:58,090 Exactly, it is as if [we were blamed for, years and years later, having locked and eaten] cows... 1:07:00,840 1:07:01,760 Wait a minute, [it’s easy to imagine:] the day when it’s gonna be decided... the day when humanity | (and I think it will happen some day), will decide that KILLING AN ANIMAL IS LIKE KILLING A MAN, 1:07:08,200 1:07:09,305 and that we can [very well] eat artificial food, which tastes the same (and even better!)... 1:07:14,755 Anytime you eat this piece of artificial beef, made with oil or whatever, I don’t care, | it’s better than any piece of beef anyone ever ate when he/she ate a [real] piece of beef... 1:07:26,015 The thing is, you no longer need to kill an animal [to take pleasure in eating]. 1:07:27,555 Once we’ve invented the necessary technology to feed us and finding it exquisite, giving us all the proteins, | all the substances we need, with [no] need to kill animals, 1:07:35,400 as of this day, killing an animal could become a crime, since we’ll no longer need it, 1:07:39,945 and when you judge [for this distant future period] | today’s people by saying "they would kill animals, it was butchery, | a never ending genocide, look at concentration camps, 1:07:47,945 look at caged animals which are being killed, | before being killed, they are tortured, 1:07:54,510 they eat each other, like pigs"... 1:07:58,150 But we will be judged ([with our current values), our grandchildren will ask us: | "granddad, what were you doing, while animals were killed?" 1:08:05,435 I would reply: "Well, I would eat them, like the others did [, naturally]". 1:08:07,555 And... in a way, slavery in Athens is A bit like this. [PLEASE AVOID ANACHRONISTIC CRITICISM.] 1:08:11,715 I’m not saying this to defend slavery, don’t be stupid: I’m not in favour of slavery! | I’m no phallocrat, I’m not saying that women should not [take part in political life]... | When I ask you to focus on a subject, I’m not saying "let’s be misogynous, and [exclude] women"... 1:08:23,490 I’m obviously not saying this... 1:08:25,310 You understand what I mean?... And those who're blaming me, telling me: "but you are defending | a xenophobic regime, in favour of slavery", they think I’m stupid! 1:08:34,275 They think I’m mean, they insult me, that’s incredible. | I’m [simply able to] DISTINGUISH, which means that... 1:08:38,675 (audience: let’s ask him if he’s wearing Nike shoes) 1:08:40,400 1:08:41,090 Yes indeed, Athenians are not gonna be blamed for not taking the place or not wearing Nike shoes. Well. 1:08:45,065 Anyway, what I mean is... look at the guy who’s telling you this, 1:08:49,050 the one who’s saying: "Well! Athenian democracy... You’re defending a regime That was in favour of slavery". 1:08:55,500 Please, you think I’m stupid?! 1:08:57,785 YOU’RE MIXING EVERYTHING, BECAUSE SOMETHING BOTHERS YOU, WHICH WILL MAKE YOU JOBLESS, 1:09:02,610 because elected representatives (or elected sponsors) are those who usually say this. 1:09:04,880 Obviously, these are people who’re gonna lose everything, lose their power: ELECTED people [of course, | BUT ALSO] RICH PEOPLE, who’re gonna lose their transmission belt,"elected-to-their-service". 1:09:13,695 SORTITION WILL MAKE THEM LOSE EVERYTHING! 1:09:15,190 SO THEY’D BETTER MIX EVERYTHING, put shit into it... it’s all mixed... "look how dirty it is!"... 1:09:20,015 And they’re telling you: "go away, there’s nothing to see". 1:09:22,180 But you, well, I think, we: OUR INTEREST IS TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THINGS: 1:09:26,255 when something is bad on one side, EVERYTHING IS NOT NECESSARILY bad. 1:09:29,800 1:09:32,225 I’m sorry but politics… PARTISAN politics Which consist in saying: "I follow a political line, | and all the things that do not comply with it are my enemies", | to me, [this way of considering things is] A PRISON FOR THOUGHT. I’m not like this. 1:09:46,180 It means that each individual or each political life may have made [potentially serious] errors, and may not be perfect. 1:09:55,180 At the same time, [the same imperfect individual,] can have a great idea [an excellent idea,] | which will help me build a pacified world, reach agreements for today. [I don’t wan to miss | this great idea for I hardly rejected its author, and being forbidden to listen to him.] 1:10:01,435 In Athens, I’m telling you: if you can distinguish between things [you’ll find great ideas...] 1:10:03,770 1:10:04,550 Look at Athens: would slavery MAKE democracy POSSIBLE? 1:10:11,950 If you answer: "yes, absolutely, democracy was only possible because slavery existed", | Ok then, I’ll say: "so it’s true, This system bears something unacceptable so let’s give up". 1:10:22,385 But is that true? 1:10:23,580 There was SOME truth [at that time], which [TODAY] IS NO LONGER TRUE AT ALL: 1:10:26,720 "Some truth", which means: "since there were slaves they had TIME to do politics". 1:10:31,980 It’s [also] because women would take care of the house, the food and crops | (agriculture)... that men could do politics... 1:10:40,730 That’s true. 1:10:42,600 BUT, today, with OIL, fossil fuels, MACHINES, we’ve got IRON SLAVES | that would save 1,000 times, 1,000 times more work and time than “blood and flesh” slaves at that time. 1:10:57,375 It means that with simple machines, we could very well work less | and have time to do politics. And not only politics [, by the way] : | philosophy, music, conversations and games... 1:11:09,535 So what I mean is that slavery, may at that time have made democracy possible | but today, we absolutely don’t need it for democracy to work. 1:11:17,485 We’ve got other means that would free time for us, the necessary time to... 1:11:21,345 MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE SHOULD GET RID OF OUR [BIGGEST] PARASITES, for that’s because they steal us thousands of billions of euros every year, | all the time, all the time, all the time, we are obliged to work so much... 1:11:27,405 If the wealth we create through our activity, our industry, our efforts, | IF WE DISTRIBUTED IT CORRECTLY WITHOUT IT BEING STOLEN BY | A BUNCH OF PRIVILEDGED PEOLE, WE WOULD NOT NEED TO WORK SO MUCH. 1:11:38,825 Much, much less… [About] two days per week! 1:11:41,500 And we could retire at 50 years old! 1:11:44,145 We only need to get rid of our parasites. 1:11:47,455 But [be careful] not [small] parasites... not the guys who steal a motorbike or who are... | not the... They are not parasites, it’s not a big issue. 1:11:56,415 I’m talking about BIG PARASITES. Parasites who’re stealing you thousands of billions, the real ones. We should deal with them first. 1:12:01,400 (audience: financial greedy guys) 1:12:02,780 Financial greedy guys, exactly. 1:12:05,795 So, as far as the objection "Athenian model = in favour of slavery, | phallocrat, xenophobic" To me, it’s out of the subject. 1:12:14,910 [END OF OBJECTIONS AND REFUTATIONS.] Pondering this... | [If I try to understand where the virtues of sortition come from..] 1:12:17,045 1:12:18,800 What allows me to be sure that it will always work like this? 1:12:26,860 How come a system where representatives, those who help us exert power, are drawn 1:12:35,005 HOW COME IT DESYNCHRONISES POLITICAL POWER AND ECONOMIC POWER? 1:12:39,850 1:12:40,880 HOW COME IT PROTECTS US BETTER FROM ABUSES OF POWER? 1:12:43,900 1:12:44,770 How come elections, on the contrary, allow for and do not punish | abuses of power, and select (almost all the time) THE WORST ONES? 1:12:54,940 1:12:56,195 Well, I think (and I talked a bit about it, but it’s time to discuss it again because I think | It is... it’s time to finish, to conclude, these are really essentials), 1:13:03,655 I think ELECTION ARE BASED ON A MYTH, 1:13:06,350 [elections] are based on a story we’re told which doesn’t correspond to reality at all, which is even contradicted by facts, that is all facts show the contrary: 1:13:15,220 THE MYTH OF ELECTIONS, IS THAT... 1:13:17,620 1:13:18,700 "WE ARE ABLE TO CHOSE GOOD MASTERS, AND BECAUSE WE CHOSE THEM, THEY’RE GONNA BE GOOD…" 1:13:26,225 This is myth: IT DOESN’T WORK. 1:13:29,485 EXPERIENCE shows us that since we started testing it, more than 200 years ago! that’s a long time, | when elections were tested in all the countries of the world, at all times, 1:13:39,120 ELECTIONS [ALWAYS] HAVE CONSISTED IN GIVING POWER TO THE RICHES ONES (OR PEOPLE SERVING THEM). 1:13:45,500 (audience: that’s what they are made for) 1:13:46,990 So, I don’t know if "that’s what they are made for", because I’m not sure that at the beginning, Sieyès and Madison WANTED rich people to govern, | they may have wanted good people to govern, "aristocrats", real "aristocrats", 1:13:57,760 I’m not blaming them for plotting, for knowing in advance; it doesn’t matter anyway... 1:14:05,220 [but] the result... THE FACT IS THAT... 1:14:08,000 1:14:09,145 ELECTIONS ALLOW THE RICH ONES TO BUY POWER (just like you’d buy a car). 1:14:14,100 I’m not talking about [any] rich guy... we are [all] rich compared to people who are poorer than us: 1:14:18,450 I’m talking about ULTRA-rich people, I’m talking about the hyper-class, extremely wealthy people, people… 1:14:23,410 Are you ABLE TO CORRUPT someone, [you] ? No, however you’re richer than certain poor people... 1:14:28,690 1:14:29,845 No, no, we can play with words: I’m talking about the rich ones who are able to corrupt someone. | So, to be able to corrupt someone, you need LOTS of money. 1:14:36,765 And as a matter of fact, elections, through campaigns and media acquisition, | the possibility for them to buy media, therefore to shape and influence opinions, to virtually build them... 1:14:54,165 (I must have 20 or 30 book on media manipulations: manipulation techniques, | that’s incredible: this thing is becoming an exact science), 1:15:02,000 1:15:03,000 elections therefore allow the rich ones to buy power. 1:15:05,370 Elections allow the ECONOMICALLY rich ones to buy POLITICAL power [to concentrate/own both types of power]. 1:15:08,950 ELECTIONS MAKE [POSSIBLE] SYNCHRONISATION BETWEEN BOTH. 1:15:12,265 [Unlike the doxa imposed by elected representatives,] ELECTIONS MAKE US POLITICALLY IMPOTENT 1:15:15,370 The election of the constituent Assembly allows some people to write rules for themselves, rules thanks to which everything will then be done without consulting us. 1:15:24,900 THE POLITICAL LIE CONSISTS IN MAKING US BELIEVE THAT THE CURRENT REGIME IS DEMOCRACY. 1:15:29,025 That’s... Do you realise? Well, I’ve been talking about it for an hour, | but do you know realise the huge [difference] between | the name given to our current regime and what it really is? 1:15:40,350 1:15:41,110 Do you understand that IT IS A TRAP: we can’t figure out any alternative because we have... 1:15:46,690 You know, there’s an image that I like, I haven’t mentioned it [in the written paper | which (roughly) corresponds to the conference], but it's now coming to my mind... 1:15:52,880 1:15:54,360 Indian chiefs: American Indians were societies with CHIEFS, BUT WITHOUT POWER. 1:16:03,745 That’s very funny, Pierre Clastres explains it. 1:16:06,660 1:16:08,560 He lived with them and it’s a real anthropoligical and [very interesting] work because 1:16:15,320 they knew, Indians knew that they should fear the chief, | a bit like Athenians knew, they didn’t want... [chiefs to become tyrants] 1:16:21,400 so Indians would act differently with the chiefs: 1:16:24,820 they designed a big chair for the chief, they took a guy and designated him, | he wouldn’t be allowed to refuse and if he did, he would be killed, so he would accept... 1:16:31,550 1:16:32,990 And he would be put AT THE PLACE of the chief [on the big chair]. 1:16:34,730 BUT this chief has NO POWER. 1:16:37,530 He only has the power to SPEAK. 1:16:39,955 And he would speak, he would speak all the time and, While he was speaking, people would pass in front of [him], | looking like they were not listening [obviously not respectful]. 1:16:44,860 1:16:46,020 He would be despised, neglected. He would speak and nobody would listen. 1:16:50,550 And his job [(the Indian chief’s job)], was to “take care of” the chief’s place | so no one could become chief without [the people’s agreement]. 1:16:57,450 1:16:58,830 That’s funny: it means that they knew that they didn’t want... | they knew that people tend to... some tend to become chiefs, leaders... 1:17:06,530 To protect against them, there was a chief’s place, occupied by someone who was put [there], | [but] he would not be [given] any power, he [even] had to offer us presents!... 1:17:13,550 I swear it is true: the chief had to offer presents to its people, and when people | were not happy, they would make him suffer, he was at risk of dying. 1:17:22,450 1:17:23,475 They would distrust chiefs so much!... and what they found, [themselves,] | not to be fooled by [“power stealers”], it’s funny... 1:17:29,610 Well, it seems that we’re a bit like victims of this, with people [who long for power, people who would like to be the chief, people] who... 1:17:33,875 1:17:35,470 who made a system which is not democracy, [people] who should fear everything about democracy, 1:17:40,530 (oligarchs should fear it indeed: 1:17:42,880 democracy means their end, 1:17:46,100 1:17:46,880 that they can no longer have the power and abuse it)... 1:17:49,450 1:17:51,155 So what do they do? 1:17:52,260 How do they call their despicable and unfair system? 1:17:57,050 1:17:58,025 Well, it’s the same thing as the Indians, but the other way round: 1:18:00,430 That is THEY EXCLUDE US WITH THIS WORD, 1:18:03,230 WHEN THEY CALL “DEMOCRACY" A SYSTEM THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE... 1:18:06,860 1:18:07,615 HOW CAN [WE] RESIST? 1:18:09,200 1:18:10,100 A KEY WORD HAS BEEN STOLEN. 1:18:13,060 I’m coming back to [Franck] Lepage whom I mentioned a while ago: Franck Lepage and people from the "Pavé" have made a great work on words. 1:18:21,200 We find the newspeak… you know Orwell and the work he did on this, that is a totalitarian State that dominates us through words, 1:18:29,780 by removing [from our vocabulary] the words which allow to designate the ennemy... 1:18:33,850 1:18:35,035 removing these words, making them criminal, ridiculous, replacing them by different, | inoffensive words, allow (oligarchs) to protect themselves. 1:18:46,095 What Orwell did, was to update this newspeak. 1:18:49,570 And what Franck Lepage and his team... It's really a group of great people, 1:18:56,025 ("Le Pavé", they’re called: 1:18:57,100 1:18:58,080 Google-search "Le Pavé” and you’ll find a website with videos and resources that don't stop growing, you must... 1:19:07,200 See Franck Lepage’s and his team’s videos, they're worth it.) 1:19:12,025 [ANOTHER] OBJECTION you will often hear: 1:19:14,220 1:19:15,370 • The objection is: "Will this system work with the media which belong to oligarchs?" 1:19:21,065 [Yes indeed,] you know that 75% of [French] newspapers belong to two gun sellers and one concrete seller. 1:19:26,050 1:19:28,205 Why does Rothschild buy "Libération" ? It’s not for earning money (he loses some). 1:19:32,845 Why does another bank buy "Le Monde"? Why does another bank buy "Le Nouvel Obs" and " Les Inrockuptibles"? 1:19:39,945 WHY DO BAKS BUY NEWSPAPERS? 1:19:41,510 WHY DO GUN SELLERS BUY MAGAZINES AND TELEVISION PROGRAMMES? 1:19:44,860 WHY DO INDUSTRIALS BUY TELEVISION PROGRAMMES? 1:19:47,100 It’s not to earn money, it’s not true: don’t believe this, it’s not true. 1:19:50,645 IT’S TO MANIPULATE. To manipulate, because in an ELECTION-BASED SYSTEM, | SINCE YOU CHOSE CANDIDATES, MASTERING ACCESS TO VISIBLE CANDIDATES | Is very important, the only one who’s gonna be able to be elected. 1:20:03,895 1:20:04,470 To this objection, I would reply that... 1:20:08,440 let me remind you that my orientation... 1:20:10,850 1:20:11,725 since the origin, THE ROOT CAUSE [OF OUR POLITICAL IMPOTENCE], | IS THAT THOSE WHO [CURRENTLY] WRITE THE CONSTITUTION SHOULD NOT WRITE IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE | A PERSONAL INTEREST WHICH IS AGAINST OURS, 1:20:20,240 (against the interest of most people), 1:20:22,250 1:20:24,135 therefore, since the solution, is to draw a constituent Assembly | which won’t have any interest since it will be drawn and not be allowed | to be elected for the institutions it writes... 1:20:34,120 I think that [mechanically, by design,] such Assembly, will settle all media issues: 1:20:45,330 it will design institutions, with as Montesquieu would foresee, a legislative power... 1:20:50,700 1:20:51,755 and [also] an executive power (and [most importantly] we will NOT name it "government", | because THE WORD "GOVERNMENT" [IS A TRAP]... executive power will obey the orders of the Assembly, | it will serve the Assembly. [Executive power may only execute.] 1:21:00,890 THE WORD “GOVERNMENT” IS MISLEADING. 1:21:03,615 Because “government”, includes everything: “I decide and apply, and I even judge!”. 1:21:08,635 So the word “government" should not be accepted.) 1:21:11,855 A good Constitution does not allow for a government, it allows for EXECUTIVE POWER. 1:21:16,075 Montesquieu talked about [the] separation of powers: 1:21:18,620 "You write the laws (you are the Parliament), but you don’t apply them. 1:21:22,585 You are the Executive power, you apply the laws, you are the army, but you do not write the laws. 1:21:28,425 And you are the Judge, so you watch them; if they don’t act properly you punish them, and you settle disputes among citizens." 1:21:33,980 TRIANGULATION of these well-separated powers [(acting as as many counter-powers)] | means that none of them can become a tyrant. 1:21:39,380 That’s a very clever idea... [Except that] he had not foreseen (because he didn’t know it, he didn’t have TV...) | Since he didn’t have TV, Montesquieu forgot to include MEDIA. 1:21:46,450 But we are not obliged to be [stupid]... and limit ourselves to what Montesquieu had thought, and our interest is [to continue to think]... 1:21:51,675 We know that media are a power more important than the Parliament, | so we’re gonna put the media under control, and [even] under democratic control, | with drawn citizens’ juries who check that everything’s ok, 1:22:04,930 and we’re gonna check... we’re obviously going to forbid any company to simultaneously 1:22:11,050 1:22:12,185 own a media, obviously, obviously, obviously. And at the same time…. but what I wanted | [to say, in response to the objection of media sold to the rich, is that democracy is a whole, | a set of institutions, and that media should of course ALSO be submitted to controlling institutions]... 1:22:15,995 [...] 1:22:19,820 [But,] they won’t let you do it even partially; they won’t... 1:22:23,380 What I mean, is that this project, this real democracy project, they won’t let us do it: 1:22:29,635 It won’t be done by staying still. I mean... | we won’t... ask them permission and they’ll say “yes"... | It’s not gonna work like this. 1:22:37,500 1:22:38,520 So, if you wanna change things, at the same time you’ll change [institutions on] media... 1:22:44,335 And to me that’s not all [(media independence)] : We should also think about MONEY. 1:22:48,105 I mean [money creation], within institutions... | (Montesquieu didn’t talk about, [money], he missed one thing because it was being [put in place]; | Montesquieu lived in the 18th [century], [at that] time, no one would see the project of [private bankers to take control of public power]. 1:23:00,385 No one would see that the problem of banking power was shaping. 1:23:03,660 1:23:04,790 It started though, but it was invisible; so no one would usually discuss it. But today!!! 1:23:09,530 Today, if the problem is not taken into account within our institutions, the solution, protection, control of monetary authorities, 1:23:18,045 If we don’t foresee it, we’re more stupid than the average, I mean: it is necessary to think about it! 1:23:21,900 Obivously, if we write new institutions, the constituent Assembly will have to think about money. 1:23:26,385 A sentence to conclude. 1:23:28,755 I... 1:23:29,800 1:23:30,775 I do understand... 1:23:33,920 1:23:34,920 that an industrial, 1:23:36,690 a banker, 1:23:38,165 an oligarch strongly defends elections... 1:23:41,360 1:23:42,110 I understand: they allow them to buy the power, it’s LOGICAL. 1:23:46,400 I don’t even blam them: it corresponds to their role, it’s NORMAL. 1:23:51,160 BUT ACTIVISTS (left or right wing) who are humanists, struggling for a [fair] society... 1:23:56,570 (because lots of “right wing” people do want a pacified society; | well, it’s a society which is still a bit more violent than a “left wing” society, | but left wing people do not realise that they also feed some kind of violence, so I... 1:24:07,375 I don’t chose between them, I don’t care), 1:24:09,235 but the fact that humanist people of all sides, trying to [implement] a pacified society... 1:24:15,380 1:24:17,270 with as little unfairness as possible... 1:24:19,350 1:24:20,490 (which means inequalities, but corresponding to the needs of each one, 1:24:23,830 which means there can be inequalities, but proportionate with efforts: | the one who makes many efforts is better treated than the one who doesn’t do anything) 1:24:30,490 but the fact that all these guys [activists of all sides] looking for a pacified and fair society, | DEFEND ELECTIONS in spite of the [systematic failure and broken dreams]... 1:24:38,170 and [REFUSE] SORTITION... [I DON’T GET IT.] 1:24:40,120 When I tell my friends, [about] sortition, they say "no, no but”... | BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO PARTIES, THEY CAN’T FIGURE IT OUT. 1:24:46,750 And they say... they always try to manoeuvre. 1:24:48,975 (All) these people, at the same time... 1:24:51,910 1:24:52,625 continue to venerate elections like a sacred cow, the [so-called] universal suffrage, and continue to despise sortition or expose it to public contempt... 1:25:01,380 whereas 400 years ago, (200 years of sortition + 200 years of elections), 400 years of contrary facts which show them they’re wrong! 1:25:07,930 It’s a denial of reality. 1:25:09,650 1:25:10,795 I UNDERSTAND THE SUPERMARKET MANAGER; 1:25:13,720 BUT I DON’T UNDERSTANT THE HUMANIST ACTIVIST. IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE. 1:25:19,300 [For more information, visit: http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/tirage_au_sort.php ] 1:25:26